Oh, and jenniesgroups, thank you for being judgmental about my decision to take my son to a daycare. I had forgotten that was a few pages back. Considering
that I have just one, and I only stay away from nine hours a day...I would suspect he gets more individual, quality attention from me than the Duggar kids do
from their parents. Just by doing the math. 18 kids, 2 parents, 16 hours awake...that's maybe one hour per child per parent per day. Assuming that that the
parents never do anything else, of course. My little boy (considering we co-sleep) is able to get as much or as little attention the remainder of the day as he
would like. (And, quite frankly, even when I am home, all he wants to do is run around and play all day anyway.)
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 Nevanna |
#166 | |||
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Posts: 571 05/13/08 10:53:16 |
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jenniesgroups |
#167 | |||
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Posts: 19 05/13/08 11:00:18 |
OUSOONERMOMMY wrote: Is anyone going to tell me this statement isn't attacking Christian views and/or someone's personal religion? That site is a great site for those of us who believe that way. If you don't believe it then don't read it. That book, called "Created To Be His Helpmeet" by Debi Pearl is also a good book. Again, I don't agree with all of it, but it is Biblical and if you believe in that, then it will help you. If you don't, then don't read it, but don't criticize those of us who do. Apparantly people's definitions of what a "real childhood" is is different as well. You can't say you aren't criticising their religous beliefs, only their decision to have so many children, when that is part of their beliefs. Again, I don't agree with it, but it's part of their religous beliefs, so if you attack that, you are attacking their religion. sorry. If there is abuse, that's one thing, but I don't see it. I know other's disagree with me. That's fine. |
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Nevanna |
#168 | |||
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Posts: 571 05/13/08 11:14:18 |
Dressing up something harmful or dangerous in the name of religion does not give it an exemption.
Example...the Neuman family whose daughter died of treatable diabetes, because they prayed instead of taking her to the hospital. The Duggars present this shiny, perfect image. No way is everything as squeaky-clean and happy as they claim. |
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 KidLawless77 |
#169 | |||
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Posts: 4565 05/13/08 11:17:02 |
Is anyone going to tell me this statement isn't attacking Christian views and/or someone's personal religion? I don't see how that is attacking Christian views anymore than I can see how calling the Taliban a bunch of misogynistic nutters is an attack on Islam or the millions of Muslims who peacefully practice their faith. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew and I disagree with them does not mean that I am attacking that religion.
Dressing up something harmful or dangerous in the name of religion does not give it an exemption.Exactly. Also, unless I missed something, I don't recall God saying that the Duggars have the final say-so on what is "Christian" and what is not. Religion or rather the gross misuse of it has been used to justify a lot of nasty things including gender discrimination and even genocide. I do have a question for jenniesgroup: If someone said that it was their religious belief that girls should not be educated would you be okay with that, too, so long it is what they believed?
Last Edited By: KidLawless77 05/13/08 11:27:54.
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warpedfactor9 |
#170 | |||
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Posts: 249 05/13/08 11:20:28 |
jenniesgroups wrote: If criticizing their religious beliefs or the fact they have so many children is equated to be attacking their religion, then my question is now does an action stemming from a religious belief(for example, having so many children) automatically make the belief moral and ethical? Why can't I criticize an action I find immoral and unethical simply because it's someone's religious belief? |
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KidLawless77 |
#171 | |||
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Posts: 4565 05/13/08 11:30:02 |
Didn't L. Ron Hubbard prove that anyone can invent something and declare it a religion not matter how odd or screw-up?
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warpedfactor9 |
#172 | |||
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Posts: 249 05/13/08 11:39:17 |
KidLawless77 wrote: I guess we're all wrong for criticizing Tommy Gurl because you know, Scientology is his religious belief system! |
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Craptaculous.survivorsucks |
#173 | |||
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Posts: 590 05/13/08 11:43:15 |
The Spanish killed thousands and thousands of Jews & Muslims in the name of Catholicism. That's OK, though, that's what their religion told them to
do.
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redpecker |
#174 | |||
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Posts: 1012 05/13/08 12:02:01 |
Jenniesgroups, "religious belief", what exactly is it? What God wants or what people think is what he wants?
I have always believed that here on earth, all we are required to do is be the best human beings that we can to our fellow men. That is why we use the phrase "look in your heart", that simple thing needn't be complicated by a backing with a verse from a "good book". This is FAITH. Reading the bible reveals that to touch God is to acknowledge humanity. The 10 Commandments and Message on the Mount all have to do with how we should be to one another. Out of the blue, we get something like the FLDS. They've been there all along but this year, we find them split open and the contents are alarming. Look at scientology, the members are keen to sell it to us as a religion, do you have any problems with these 2 "religions". Do you simply say, "I don't agree but respect their beliefs?" What exactly does that mean? Would you have gone on the offensive if their actions weren't clouded in the smoke of religion? I am quite confused on that. Any chance of you telling that to the children subjected to sexual abuse in the FLDS, you want to explain that to the scientology children made to work their fingers to the bone? You want to explain that to the children of homosexuals who are made to feel as if their parents are sub-human by some Christians' religious beliefs where they misquote that part of the Bible about homosexuality being a sin and forget the whole message of the Bible of how we should be kind to one another, you want to say that to terrorism victims who have had their lives destroyed or almost destroyed by some people who use the Koran to wrongly back their actions. I am just throwing these examples out there to find out where you draw the line. We must not excuse ourselves for any reason when a human life is made to be lived harshly even when cottoned in the clouds of religion. The Duggers having 18 children is one thing to make ones jaw drop, realising that the reason it is happening is because of something they believe in is worrisome.
Please add your name to an ever-growing movement of people who call for global action to end violence against women.:
http://www.saynotoviolence.org/
Last Edited By: redpecker 05/13/08 12:16:01.
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mulva |
#175 | |||
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Posts: 314 05/13/08 12:03:53 |
jenniesgroups wrote: Wow jenniesgroups - you sound like the intolerant one! I'm not attacking your religion. In fact, I consider myself a Christian (although I'm
probably not according to your judgmental standards). That HelpMeet book is FUNNY!!! So we don't agree - but how dare you say I am attacking Christian
views - very extreme comment!! I wouldn't say that book is the common views of most Christians. To each his own - if someone wants to live that way - so
be it.
IMO, the Bible is taken WAY too literally by some Christians and they fail to grasp the spiritual, metaphysical aspects of it. I don't know if
you've ever heard of Emett Fox, but I find his books and interpretation of the Bible to ring true for me and if anyone wants to make fun of his books - I
don't care and I won't say you are attacking Christian views for it either. LOL!
The number one thing I see so often from people like you is your JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDE. SistaBigBones, on the other hand, who subscribes to much stricter
beliefs than I, never seems to have this judgmental attitude and I respect her so much for that. She lays out her beliefs without condemning others - you
should try that for yourself!
Of course you have the right to your beliefs and I wouldn't try to change your mind for anything, but step back and think before you start saying someone is attacking Christian views. Your argument doesn't hold water. I made fun of a so-called "Christian" book, oooh what an attack on Christianity (sarcasm - in case you don't get it) BTW - I believe God has a sense of humor too. Thanks OUSOONERMOMMY for the link - I'll check it out! |
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Craptaculous.survivorsucks |
#176 | |||
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Posts: 590 05/13/08 12:09:43 |
ITA mulva. The other problem, is what exactly is "Christian"? Who is to say this thing or that thing is not "Christian"? Catholics believe
in a strict hierarchical structure on up to the Pope and a male priesthood, but Methodists have no supreme leader and female ministers. Shakers believed in
separation of the sexes, other Christian chruches do not. Mormons believe that Jesus came back to earth and ended up in North America, most other Christians
believe he has not yet returned. Which is "more Christian"? Which is the one, true Christianity? Which one is better?
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crackles |
#177 | |||
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Posts: 415 05/13/08 12:17:58 |
jenniesgroups wrote: The Duggar's belong to a movement called Quiverful. There are a lot of issues with this belief system. One of the issues is that a women's only
role and use is to produce more babies. There are many women who have followed the Quiverful movement who have become infertile, and been dumped by their
husbands for fertile women.
The Quiverful movement also derives from the teaching of Bill Gothard. There are a lot of issues with what Gothard preaches. He has a system of rules for
Christian living that he claims are from scripture. However, Biblical scholars have looked at Gothard's rules, and they say that Gothard makes up a lot of
those rules, or twists Scripture to come up with these rules. There are detailed analysis of the controversies surrounding Gothard's teachings here:
http://www.pfo.org/evol-fad.htm
and here:
The Duggars follow Gothard's homeschooling program, which consists of 50 booklets, that stacked one on top of the other make a stack just over a foot high. This is supposed to be their entire education from K-12. This is to indoctrinate them in the teachings of Gothard, and prevent them from having enough education to make choices for themselves, or to learn to think critically about things. With this type of education, if the children grow up and want to live a different type of lifestyle, they are completely unprepared to live in the outside world. They don't have the education, or the work skills to get good jobs. This system of education also teaches that the only careers girls can be employed in are beauticians, midwives, nurses etc. I know that the girls that want to be mid-wives must train in Gothard's idea of mid-wifery. I posted about that in a previous post in this thread. There is an article here about it: http://www.midwestoutreach.org/journals/mystical_approach.htm Yes, I am criticizing the Duggar's beliefs. Or rather, the abuses that Gothardites perpetuate in the name of their beliefs. The Duggar's are following the practices of a charlatan, and belong to an organization that has a lot of characteristics of a cult. One of the reasons I come to Free Katie is because I am opposed to the horrible abuses that Scientology commits on their members. And yet, because Scientology masquerades as a religion, many people give the Scieno's a pass, claiming that they're ok with CoS beliefs, people can believe whatever they want etc. Scientology dupes people into thinking that Scientology will help them live better lives. Gothard dupes his followers into thinking that they're living a Christian life. By exposing, criticizing and shining a light on the beliefs, practices and abuses of cults, we are helping to educate people so that they can make informed choices. In some ways, it's like exposing a scam. |
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mulva |
#178 | |||
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Posts: 314 05/13/08 12:18:01 |
redpecker wrote: Excellent post!!
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jenniesgroups |
#179 | |||
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Posts: 19 05/13/08 12:45:24 |
warpedfactor9 wrote: I never said it made it moral or acceptable. Someone on here had said they weren't attacking their religous beliefs, and I'm pointing out that in this instance, I believe you are. They are connected. |
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jenniesgroups |
#180 | |||
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Posts: 19 05/13/08 12:49:34 |
KidLawless77 wrote: The comments about the website and the book, IMO, were "ha ha look at these idiots". Maybe that's not what the posters meant, but that's how I read it. It seemed as if they were laughing at those 2 things (book and website). And I agree, the idea of using "religion" to justify things has gotten out of control. I'm not arguing that. I've answered so many people attacking me on this site that it is getting all confusing. You all sit there and say I am being judgemental. I don't think I have personally attacked ANY OF YOU. Yet so many of you are calling me names and attacking me. You may think what you want about me that's fine b/c you don't know me. I simply posted a contrasting opinion and get attacked. |
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