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 statkika06 |
OT: Kelsey Grammar sucks too!! |
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Posts: 3151 11/19/07 05:46:14 |
Although, as I've stated before, I'm not the most PC person out there, and I even enjoy a Polish joke once in a while, I draw the line at making jokes
at the expense of historical inaccuracies. I guess KG's working with $cieno-nuts all those years made him more prone to accept 'acceptible truths'.
http://www.jvlradio.com/weblog/ Edited because I was too outraged to spell correctly 
This is what 'Not Amused' looks like.
Last Edited By: statkika06 11/19/07 06:53:59.
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maum |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 3932 11/19/07 05:55:19 |
Sad thing is that it's not even funny.
Unnecessary and offensive, what's the point? Btw which Scienos has Grammer worked with before? |
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statkika06 |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 3151 11/19/07 06:06:23 |
I know Kirstie Alley on Cheers for one . . . This is what 'Not Amused' looks like.
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princesspeach |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 9237 11/19/07 07:10:17 |
I don't understand -- why is this Grammer's fault? He didn't deliver the line -- that's not his voice -- did he write it? Is he the producer of
the show?
Isn't he of Polish descent? Not defending, just asking...
Today's Deep
Thoughts
A day without sunshine is like night. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap. On the other hand, you have different fingers. 
Kitsch In Sink.
Last Edited By: princesspeach 11/19/07 07:12:37.
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statkika06 |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 3151 11/19/07 07:31:37 |
Ok, so perhaps, it's not his fault and he did not deliver the line. I'm just angry at the entire cast and crew for allowing such a line in their show.
As I mentioned before, it's not so much the political incorrectness that bothers me, as it is the historical inaccuracy. Yes, there may have been a few
Poles who helped the Nazis (as there were several Germans who fought against the Nazis, as we've discussed many times before), but to make it into a
generalization for the sake of humor is what many Poles and individuals of Polish descent are so fired up about
And no, I don't believe Kelsey Grammar is of Polish descent. You might have been thinking about Ted Knight. This is what 'Not Amused' looks like.
Last Edited By: statkika06 11/19/07 09:51:49.
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posterchilde |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 1473 11/19/07 09:40:39 |
The line is not only historically inaccurate, it's not funny. It's a cheap shot at the expense of the Polish people. I don't know if Kelsey Grammer
was influenced by Scienos via Kirstie Alley, but I don't think that's what's at work here. I thought Grammer was one of the producers of the show,
but I just Googled and it turns out that he's not, although James Burrows, who directed Cheers, is the executive producer.
I haven't watched this show because I can't stand Patricia Heaton. Guess I won't be seeing it anyway now. 
"Grandma Cruise, you're giving me a headache!" |
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Jen4 |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 1119 11/19/07 10:28:13 |
That line is disgusting and stupid. I say that as a half-Pole married to a Jew raising Jewish children.
Too bad, I was going to eventually check out this show cause I enjoyed Kelsey Grammar in "Frasier" but I do find Patricia Heaton annoying. Now I will avoid it completely. http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Survivors-Christians-Remember-Occupation/dp/0700613501
"Saying you have too many children is like saying there are
too many flowers." Michelle Duggar, pregnant Arkansas mother of
17.
Last Edited By: Jen4 11/19/07 10:42:53.
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statkika06 |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 3151 11/19/07 11:03:41 |
Jen4 wrote:
 I'm so glad my fellow FreeKatians are backing me up on this 
This is what 'Not Amused' looks like.
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chaotic2 |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 2351 11/19/07 12:38:18 |
The problem is that many young people will hear that line and, in the absense of other information, will take it as a given.
Is WWII history, apart from the American angle (Pearl Harbour, etc.), taught in American schools at all? As far as I know, it's not taught here. Hence statements and "jokes" like that wouldn't get contradicted. |
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maum |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 3932 11/19/07 12:47:49 |
Having learned about WW2 in Europe, I've never heard anything about Poland collaborating with the Nazis. All that we were taught was that Poland basically
got screwed, before, during, and after the war, and not just by Germany, but by Russia too.
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chaotic2 |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 2351 11/19/07 13:05:16 |
Yes Maum, they got screwed all right. When the war started they were attacked by Germany from the west and Russia from the east. By the time the war was
over, Russia was the ally of Britain and the U.S. so there was no public criticism of Russia's "annexing" of Poland.
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Jen4 |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 1119 11/19/07 13:31:32 |
http://www.amazon.com/Neighbors-Respond-Controversy-Jedwabne-Massacre/dp/0691113068
The massacre at Jedwabne is probably the source of the controversy-- a tragic incident Polish villagers participated in a massacre of their Jewish neighbors. If you read the comments following the book description, you will see that historical accounts of the incident itself is a source of controversy -- was the event organized & forced by German Nazis, or did the Nazis merely stand by and permit a group of Anti-Semetic Poles to carry out this massacre? How much of the village was actually involved ("half the town" or "a small group?"). It is sad but it is part of the whole story. Anyone living in a pluralistic society knows that there are tensions between neighbors of different religious and ethnic backgrounds-- some embrace the diversity of their neighbors, some are secretly prejudiced but would never think of doing harm to others, and some are violent bigots who participate in hate crimes. This incident is tragic and should be studied, but it doesn't translate into "Poles were complicit with the Nazis." Overwhelmingly, the Poles fought the Nazis, risked their lives to protect themselves and their Jewish neighbors, and they suffered & died in the Nazi holocaust along with Jews.
"Saying you have too many children is like saying there are
too many flowers." Michelle Duggar, pregnant Arkansas mother of
17.
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Rene Lafayette |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 1550 11/19/07 16:07:19 |
Jen4 wrote:I like to think that I have a better than average knowledge of German history, World War II history, and Holocaust history and I've never heard of this event prior to your mentioning it (my public library has a copy of the book and I've reserved it). I don't think that the person/people who wrote the script for this episode would be referring to something that is relatively obscure; I doubt that the screenwriters have even heard of a much-more publicized event in Polish history, the Katyn massacre, in which 14,000 Polish soldiers were murdered by the Soviet Union. I suspect that it was just some idiot who didn't have much of a knowledge of history and who wrote what he or she thought was a good "throw-away" line. That isn't a defence of what the screenwriter wrote, just my suspicion as to why he or she wrote it. Most people are probably pretty illiterate when it comes to World War II history, at least the generation that is young enough today to have had a grandparent, at the very most, who participated in World War II. Having said all that, I have to ask myself, "what were the writers thinking?" You make a comparison like that and you're looking at annoying a sizeable number of people.
Last Edited By: Rene Lafayette 11/19/07 16:09:22.
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laughinginterror |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 177 11/19/07 16:42:41 |
First of all, I'm just as pissed off as anyone over this. It's rude, it's nasty, it bigoted and many other things that I'll leave out for the
sake of brevity. Really disgusting. Even in my American school history class, we learned that Poland got the shaft, in WWII and did little to support the Nazi
regime.
I do wonder why Kelsey Grammer is the SOB, in this case. As he doesn't write for the show and it's not his voice speaking the line, I wonder why it's him and not the writers, producers and editors. Seriously, it takes two braincells to figure out that a joke like that is in such poor taste, it makes Steve O look cultured. Chuck Norris invented black. In fact, he invented the entire spectrum of visible light. Except pink. Tom Cruise invented pink.
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chaotic2 |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 2351 11/20/07 02:49:06 |
Who's Steve O?
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chaotic2 |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 2351 11/20/07 05:14:10 |
Rene Lafayette wrote: Re: the Katyn massacre... Andrzej Wajda has directed a film on the subject. It was released in Poland on September 17 (the anniversary of the Soviet
Invasion of Poland in 1939) and is the Polish contender for the next Oscars.
Last Edited By: chaotic2 11/20/07 05:17:48.
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laughinginterror |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 177 11/20/07 05:50:59 |
Steve O is one of the guys from Jackass. This link pretty much sums it up, if you read the part under "Legal problems and controversies" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve-O
Chuck Norris invented black. In fact, he invented the entire spectrum of visible light. Except pink. Tom Cruise invented pink.
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chaotic2 |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 2351 11/22/07 04:30:10 |
Well, it looks like Fox were forced to apologise: Shamed Fox apologises... |
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maum |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 3932 11/22/07 05:56:16 |
Well GOOD!!!
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statkika06 |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 3151 11/22/07 09:20:01 |
Glad to see the apology is made public!! My brother forwarded me the apology that he received in his email reply. Several of my friends and family members and
I did email to complain to FOX.
ETA: Just read the apology from the link; that's the same apology my brother got. This is what 'Not Amused' looks like.
Last Edited By: statkika06 11/23/07 07:35:25.
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